![[info]](http://l-stat.livejournal.com/img/userinfo.gif?v=92.2){kind=small}
Limbo has long been held by the Catholic Church to be the place where the souls of children go if they die before they can be baptised, as well as the source of the chaotic neutral alignment and home of the Slaadi. However, a 30-strong international commission of theologians summoned by the late John Paul II last year to come up with a "more coherent and illuminating" doctrine in tune with the modern age is to present its findings to Pope Benedict XVI on Friday.
Vatican sources said yesterday that the commission would recommend that Limbo be replaced by the more "compassionate" doctrine that all children who die do so "in the hope of eternal salvation", rather than the traditionally held belief that their souls suffer eternal deprivations at the hands of the Slaadi and their demented lords Ssendam and Ygorl.
What this change in theology will do for the millions of Dungeons & Dragons players across the world is not yet clear. Randy Thomson, a Dungeon Master of 23 years from Buffalo, New York, is livid. "The Pope has no authority to mess with the cosmology of our beloved multiverse!" Thomson ranted, between gulps of cola. "This will be like Second Edition all over again, when they tried to take away our demons and devils. If it's a schism the Pope wants, it's a schism he'll get!"
But not all players of the game are so enraged. Lisle Sheffield, a player for 14 years from Tucson, Arizona, said, "Frankly, I'm pleased with this move. The planar cosmology was a straitjacket imposed by the medieval-style beliefs of roleplayers from the 1970s, who saw the need for a way to restrain the actions of characters within a rigid alignment system. In these enlightened times, such measures are not necessary, as modern secular humanism encourages accountability for actions within the moral framework of the D&D setting without the need for rules. I see the abolition of Limbo as the first step towards a more open and honest roleplaying system."
These arguments don't go down well with Timmy Livingstone, a 14-year-old from Sacramento, Caifornia, who discovered the game with his friends last summer. "The Pope can't take away Limbo! Who does he think he is! My 78th level half-elf-half-dwarf paladin-ranger-barbarian just got a +23 sword of Slaad-slaying, and was going to go to Limbo and kill Ygorl and take over the whole plane! How's he going to do that now? He might have to take over the Seven Heavens instead! Let's see how the Pope likes that!"
The Vatican has so far declined to comment on the reactions of the faithful D&D players of the world.
(Paraphrased from http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,1
December 4 2005, 04:11:31 UTC 6 years ago
December 4 2005, 05:14:12 UTC 6 years ago
Excellent work.
December 4 2005, 08:39:49 UTC 6 years ago
Are they going to consolidate Hell and the Abyss?
December 4 2005, 19:05:02 UTC 6 years ago
Limbo
So apparently, Limbo is 'the permanent home in the afterlife of “the unbaptised who die in infancy without having been freed from original sin”'.So Christians think that even before you are born you are a f'up and destined for hell? Ouch!
December 5 2005, 04:29:40 UTC 6 years ago
Re: Limbo
Well, yes. And Ouch.
But right now Limbo is... well, in Limbo, I guess.
6 years ago
Anonymous
6 years ago
Anonymous
6 years ago
Anonymous
6 years ago
Anonymous
6 years ago
Anonymous
6 years ago
Anonymous
6 years ago
Anonymous
6 years ago
Anonymous
6 years ago
December 5 2005, 02:29:54 UTC 6 years ago
December 5 2005, 07:43:32 UTC 6 years ago
December 5 2005, 13:03:17 UTC 6 years ago
December 8 2005, 18:07:11 UTC 6 years ago
Sourcebook for "The Pope".
Look on page 1756 of the 'IRL Handbook'. It's the book that gamers should never be without.Seriously, very funny.
Anonymous
December 7 2005, 00:20:51 UTC 6 years ago
LOL
This is great!Steve
Speculative Catholic
http://www.speculativecatholic.com
December 7 2005, 01:46:18 UTC 6 years ago
This is hilarious!
This is hilarious!What I find even more hilarious is the means by which I found out about it:
http://corner.nationalreview.com/05_12_
(for the uninitiated: the National Review is a famous, 50 year old magazine of politically conservative thought - not exactly the sort of place you'd expect to find D&D commentary)
(Many of you probably would have preferred to remain ignorant. Sorry. It's my nature to leave a trail of psychological destruction wherever I go)
Anonymous
December 7 2005, 02:58:12 UTC 6 years ago
Re: This is hilarious!
I don't know why you think a politically conservative website's blog wouldn't comment on D&D. D&D in particular and fantasy in general are an important cultural trend and most younger conservatives embrace both. A fair number of contributors to The Corner are 30ish and 40ish white men (in otherwords, they were teenagers when D&D was first becoming popular)...John J. Miller wrote a piece for D&D's 25th anniversary and he frequently writes reviews of heavy metal albums and fanatsy and sci-fi movies for National Review Online. The latest issue of National Review has Aslan on the cover and has an article by John Miller about Narnia.
My point is, don't fall for the stereo-type that conservatives are dull, old people or religious zealots who think D&D is EEEEVVILLLL. The conservativism of National Review has very little to do with religion.
Conservatism and Gaming are both big tents. Don't assume they don't intersect.
Anonymous
December 7 2005, 03:09:47 UTC 6 years ago
Catholics in Limbo
Oh, you just gotta love them Catholics. They seem to miss the whole point of Jesus, don't you think? Like, maybe, Jesus is responsible for whether kids get to heaven, not a priest? Like maybe John the Evangelist was right when he said Jesus has existed for all time, not starting 2000 years ago? Like maybe God saves people, not the church?As for the Pope, he's been in Limbo since 1054, when he (and his office) was excommunicated from the Universal church. This is why you don't find him in any of the standard reference works. Unfortunately, you don't hear about any of those other good old heretics, like Marcion and Arius. Thomas Jefferson and Ben Franklin were terrible Marcion-like heretics. I guess it helps to win a war or two, if you're going to tick off the rest of the Church.
Btw, this thread is great. Ygorl, Ssendam, and Ratzinger. Neat!
Anonymous
December 7 2005, 06:15:45 UTC 6 years ago
Re: Catholics in Limbo
The Pope doesn't appear in any "standard reference works"? Whose standard, the Russian Orthodox Church?You're awesome, guy. Never take off those tinfoil vestments.
December 7 2005, 03:22:52 UTC 6 years ago
As a lapsed Catholic myself, I always really dug the concept of Limbo. THere's Heaven. There's Hell. There's Limbo. It's just how it is.
Anonymous
December 7 2005, 06:13:31 UTC 6 years ago
Anonymous
December 7 2005, 11:45:47 UTC 6 years ago
ancient_scars
The turtle moves!
December 7 2005, 13:26:46 UTC 6 years ago
Anonymous
December 7 2005, 14:15:34 UTC 6 years ago
Quality
Some good entertainment here.Raptor Jesus is pleased.
December 7 2005, 15:22:50 UTC 6 years ago
limbo
Great post on D&D!"Scripturally, the entire concept of limbo or any "in-between" state is completely made from whole cloth."
Limbo is in no way an "in-between" state. If it exists, it is Hell - the denial of the beatific vision. In its day it was seen as just and merciful. Without Christ, the infants cannot go to heaven. But having done no actual sin, they should not be punished with flames and pitchforks.
"And strictly speaking, Catholics don't believe in Original Sin. Something similar, but not actual, 5-Points Original Sin."
That's great! I don't remember Augustine (or Paul!) addressing "5-points original sin." That must be some sort of later innovation, strictly speaking.
"Like maybe God saves people, not the church?"
Hmm. I thought that God saves people through Christians (through the church). Isn't that why folks testify to the Gospel? Or perhaps people think that their preaching adds something to the unique work of Christ? Maybe Christians should say nothing and God will save those whom He chooses.
To the contrary, Jesus Himself says that "Whoever listens to you listens to me. Whoever rejects you rejects me. And whoever rejects me rejects the one who sent me." (Luke 10:16).
Anonymous
December 7 2005, 15:54:23 UTC 6 years ago
Re: limbo
To the contrary, Jesus Himself says that "Whoever listens to you listens to me. Whoever rejects you rejects me. And whoever rejects me rejects the one who sent me." (Luke 10:16).Or in other words: "You're either with us, or against us." ppphhhht.
Anonymous
6 years ago
Anonymous
6 years ago
Anonymous
6 years ago
Anonymous
6 years ago
Anonymous
6 years ago
Anonymous
December 7 2005, 18:02:38 UTC 6 years ago
I object to this; Catholics ARE Christians. They were Christians before any of the book-worshipping Prot sects were invented. They're still Christians in spite of the opinions of the followers of some dude who decided everyone else had been getting it wrong for centuries until he came along to interpret scripture properly. What a lot of hubris is involved in being a Prot, especially in the case of Calvinists! "I'm saved, but you're not. Nyaah!". I think they're in for a bit of a surprise when they croak...
Anonymous
December 7 2005, 18:24:04 UTC 6 years ago
I've wondered for a while now if part of a Protestant getting out of Purgatory would be having to confess that the Catholic Church was not wrong in its theology. tee hee!
December 7 2005, 20:26:30 UTC 6 years ago
just what CR is the Pope?
Anonymous
December 7 2005, 22:12:11 UTC 6 years ago
See the following:
http://www.roomours.co.uk/ryder3.htm
Anonymous
6 years ago
December 7 2005, 22:25:11 UTC 6 years ago
December 7 2005, 23:08:02 UTC 6 years ago
Anonymous
December 8 2005, 01:13:56 UTC 6 years ago
The Pope can't control the Silverhawks!
From this point onward, all mentions of 'Limbo' (the place, rather than the calypso dance) shall refer to the old Silverhawks cartoon.http://www.tv.com/silverhawks/show/7307/s
December 8 2005, 23:07:30 UTC 6 years ago
Anonymous
December 13 2005, 13:08:33 UTC 6 years ago
http://allworldviews.blogspot.com/2005/1
April 2 2006, 15:05:29 UTC 6 years ago
Have fun :)